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EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Very nice. First, nobody should laugh at a team mate (or anyone else) if he makes a mistake. If I respond to some crash, it is sad face. Little smile is appropriate only once the crashed person smiles first.

Also, a team member should not really get annoyed. If they are his own mistakes that make him mad, just leave (after saying bye, obviously) and come back another time. If they are mistakes of other people, he has the means to solve the situation.

But I really feel like stupid writing these simple things. Isn't it obvious, part of good relations and good behavior?

Also note that AA team is undergoing necessary serious reduction of its members now. There are some people that fit perfectly AA philosophy, there are others I'd like to see as AA, and unfortunately there are also AA people that are trying quite hard to be excluded from the team and deprived of all privileges soon.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Recently there's been a certain decline (or at least sudden drops) in the FBM server usage. I've seen the pattern before on our rally server, it is a first sign of something not going right. Seeing the troubles our over-managed rally server went into and seeing the popularity of our basically un-managed GTI server the cause seems obvious - there's been too many forced actions on the FBM server recently, too many kick/bans for too trivial reasons. It looks to me as if average people were more happy to take care of themselves through voting, than being subject to whims of other strange people (our members and limads ).

Everyone will notice the changes I did trying to save the situation. I've removed many limads (non-members) from FBM server, not because they're doing a bad job, but because having too many managers proves to be highly contra-productive. My sorry goes to anyone feeling hurt by this move. Do not take it personally, try rather to see if it was a move in the positive direction, try to spot the real troublemakers, convince others you are right and soon they'll be voted away. Let's put our trust back into humanity. Average GTI people prove they can manage the server by themselves, which makes it strong. Let FBM (and rallycross) people show they're capable of the same.

Soon I'll add other protective measures into Airio, e.g. bad voting based on high difference of safety rating. Currently people with significantly lower rank are kicked for voting against AA old-timers. This works very well. Unfortunately there's no way to simply cancel a started vote, I'll ask Scawen to supply this functionality as soon as possible, it is much needed for better automatic server/Airio run.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
I do not know whether you did something wrong or not, we do not keep replays as we do not have the manpower to go through them and check if vote or limad bans were appropriate or not. The ban lasts just 12 hours anyway (maybe I'll try to shorten it inside Airio yet, if done by voting).

Generally we do not see voting misuse much, but wrong votes may happen when there's a group of people voting blindly. GTI community at BL1 seems to be the most experienced with voting. FBM people need still a bit of learning, in rallycross the principle of allowed voting is very new (at least on AirAttack) and almost no one uses it. But we allowed it anyway to set clear difference between serious rally racing (we want to have) and crash racing (which became very popular and almost obliterated fair rally racing).
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Hi, I checked the log, I see you've been banned by voting. Well, people usually vote quite reasonably, maybe in your case it was wrong. Unfortunately there's not much we can do about it, because I do not see turning off voting as an option - the server would die pretty soon. Your ban has already expired. I suggest you defend yourself using polite words next time, most people then do not vote. And also please read the lines shown before you're kicked shortly after connecting to server, they say when your ban expires (press H in case the lines scroll away too quickly). Sorry in case the voting was wrong, getting some higher rank on AA will protect you from bad voting (at least a bit).
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Sounds great, big thanks to Mugen and Relliks for working on this project! Personally, I like the proposed two shorter races, 2nd one with reversed grid. Also no pitstop required, the races are too short for that and pitstops often defeat the true racing.

So I think it will be one evening per car, with different combo each week (or every two weeks)? Considering BL2, I see two options: a) Make it complete demo, with XFG&XRG races (separate) on BL2 and BL2R, b) skip BL2, stay only on BL1. Personally I prefer the 2nd option. There are not that many demo (or even licensed) people using regularly all 3 cars on BL1, and even less people doing BL2 at the same time. (I know only one, myself. )

Another important question is the series organization. If it is open, then I think we must require signups and regular attendance. Hard to get this from demo people though; they come once and then disappear. Also only 12 slots are available in demo (but we can get 13 or even 14 cars on track, if synchronized properly). What if more people would like to seriously take part?

To make things more interesting to demo people we could give a price to the winner, S1 licences (if there are separate series for BL1 and BL2), or S2 licence (in case it is combined demo cup). Just an idea though, prices to be won can lead to serious disputes during the races.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Quote from RocksGt :It seems that the AVG is being cancelled on invalid laps with the last update, but I'm getting reports of not taking the seond lap of each session into account yet...

Hm, yes, I was trying to address the problem and I did some tests also. It seemed to me that e.g. in qualification the 1st lap is correctly ignored, the other laps are taken into account. But then I did updates with invalid laps or invalid timing data, maybe some new bug is there. When I have some time, I'll test this again.

Quote from RocksGt :Anyway... last we have reached our league entry record with 162 racers and about 22.000 online laps in one week for SO2R-UF1, so I think that the AVG is an amazing improvement for our league!

Wow, nice! I'd just like to note that primary to success are the events organization and management, also Web pages help a lot. InSim is just an addition.

Quote from RocksGt :Thanks a lot for the great job, I'll never stop saying this!

Haha, and I'll never stop being pleased to hear that.
AirAttack is changing
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
AA members and anyone else watching the situation more closely will know that the team is currently in a strange state. While the BL1 servers (both FBM and GTI) are very popular among the LFS demo community, the BL2 (GTI rally) server usage dropped considerably. This was caused by several factors, some of them not in our control, but probably the most important reason was serious team enlargement – having too many members and other people with extended rights lead to serious errors in server management. Also team thinning was a big problem, the more members we had the less they knew each other, leading to decline in server atmosphere. Due to insufficient communication within the team the problems rather cumulated and were not solved.

We have reached a critical stage. AirAttack needs to change into a real (demo) team, not just a bunch of people that can drive one demo track/car combo. Serious team downsizing must happen, with only communicative, reasonable, and active people remaining. Team events in all demo combos are a must, so that every member knows every other member and so that members do not stick to one car and one track only but try also other options. Having twenty active members is much better than having almost one hundred, totally uncontrollable.

The first step was already taken. Quite a few rally people decided to leave AirAttack and form a new team. While I lacked from them any attempt to try to point out the problems in AA and offer a solution, discuss things, I understand the decision and wish them good luck, hopefully learning from AA mistakes. After excluding people going into the new team and after removing long inactive member the AA team now groups approx. 50 people. In due time there may be further team downsizing based primarily on activity.

The next step is to rebuild the rally server. Rally racing popularity is going down in LFS, but we offer one of the few serious rally servers (not allowing crashing and normal tyres), so getting new community is not impossible. All the remaining AA people interested in rally are encouraged to spend time on the server. To further separate this one server from all other crashing servers, kick/ban voting is now enabled. Someone may still have strong reservations concerning voting, but FBM and GTI servers are showing that with limitations imposed by Airio it is best to let drivers themselves decide and manage the races. Forced over-management in effect killed the previous rally server.

Concerning team matters important changes are being negotiated. We are leading serious talks with an established S2 (LFS licensed racing) team that should lead to a very close cooperation. This experienced team could help us with proper team management and could offer to AA people a relatively easy way to serious racing outside demo world. Once the negotiations are completed, AA could have good forum and Web pages and many more active people willing to discuss things and try to find ways forward. Sorry for this rather long article, but these things are important.

EQ Worry for the AirAttack team/servers
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Quote from Cabby :Don't know if it's related to this or not, but I've noticed the digital speedometer in Aonio is 1-2mph lower than what LFS reports when in a car with digital speedometer, i.e. FOX.

Exactly as Cabby says. The big number you see is real speed, while LFS gauges report speed at which tyres rotate. If you topple your car, gauges will show high speed, while real speed will be zero. Under normal circumstances the gauge speed is a few kmph higher than the real speed. Aonio digital speedo shows real speed. And please keep testing, if you see something strange report is welcome.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Quote from misiek08 :Everything is working for 2 hours and then server is showing that message to everyone who's connecting: Server did't recive UDP packet

Hmmmm, I never saw this. On many servers Airio runs for whole weeks without any troubles. The strange thing is Airio is not using UDP at all. So I'm afraid currently I do not know what could be the cause.

Quote from nl2dav :EQ, is it possible to make something like "enable restart voting after all [slowest car] race points are awarded"?

Right, I see the problem, but I see no easy solution. My suggestion would be to cancel race restart votes say only for 60 or 90 seconds after the winner is know, which is usually enough for everyone to finish. For another 120 or 90 seconds the countdown could run with faster race restart allowed, if enough people vote. But I'll think what can be done...
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Quote from raftor :This tool seems great. But it crashes too often.
10.02.20 05:48:39 Stopping thread : Aegio - 127.0.0.1:29999 - TCP Listener

The errors are not nice, surely, but are they important? From the log it seems to me you were stopping Aonio by pressing Q in the console. Or maybe by closing LFS. The application is stopping. True, the shutdown is not nice, with threads aborted instead of closed properly, but everything is being closed so it really has no significance. But I do not like it, when time allows I will try to update the Aegio library to have nice and clear shutdown. But I believe you have no troubles while Aonio runs under LFS? As for the speed display... Hmmm, weird...
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Quote from RocksGt :We've noticed that avg times are taking invalid laps.

Oh, grrr, of course you are right. It was supposed to work the way you suggest, but unfortunately code changes at the last minute caused this bug. Currently the new AVG is just not shown, but it stored and that is wrong. I'll try to update the code tonight.

Quote from z-ro 8 :The !laps command for Limads used to control number of laps in a race, but now supports laptime references.

!len is the preferred way to change race lap count. With negative numers racing for time is used, with positive it is standard laps.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Well, simply do not make people angry (that is, more than they are already). If you are friends and you know they'll accept your teasing, it is no problem of course.

For example many people are happy when they reach e.g. 1:15 (or 1:14, whatever) in FBM for the first time. There's no need to make fun of them, saying how slow they are, congratulation is much more appropriate.

Similar approach creates good atmosphere, all drivers trying to improve and with nice racing as a result.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
The average lap data are part of other data with total and champ parts. Champ part may be erased every week or (e.g. manually) every month. And just like every week a new hunt for best points, lap time, race time or drifts may start, also champ average time will be stored again.

There are always two similar commands concerning display of the data. For example there's !btl (best total lap) and !bcl (best champ lap) with more descriptive alternatives !laps and !lap. There's also !btr (best total race, !races) and !bcr (best champ race, !race).

The same is true for average times: !bca (or !avg) shows best champ (week's) average laps and may be erased every 7 days, while !bta (best total average or !avgs) is kept as long as total stats are kept, which is probably forever.

I hope this explanation helps, I'm not sure in what way you'd like to use the average lap data...
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Well said, mugen, that's exactly what I meant. Unless the beginners are causing lots of troubles, there's no need to kick, much less ban. And I've seen a bit (large one, that is) too much of this lately. While the FBM server gained sort of a pro-server status, it must remain friendly even for average people that make mistakes, otherwise it will die.

Gelin, I think you're perfectly able to judge yourself whether to ban somebody. If it is a private event that you're organizing, you decide who stays. The guidelines apply mostly for the demo servers and for new limads that suddenly have power over other people. Some take it calm, others not so much. But I think there is yet time to adjust.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Indeed, I received reports of some bad behavior and I saw things that clearly were not correct. The above rules should ensure every limad is using the rights in a fashion that will keep or even enhance AA popularity. We're talking here mainly about demo world, which can be a paricularly harsh environment.

I'll just repeat that if anyone of limads sees abuse of limad rights he should report this. While I probably will not act on one report, when they repeat and accumulate, it will be a strong basis for some adjustments. Our task is to run popular demo servers that will not eat themselves as it happened with the rally server.

In due time also AA team matters will need to be solved. Member ideas about how we should work as a team are most welcome. Currently we're just a community of people racing mostly on AA servers. But this may of course change. For now let's just make sure everyone with limad rights uses them to help people, not to bully them.
AA Members/Limads Rules
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Hi, there, our trusted AirAttack team members and limads!

With the rising number of you and generally loose conditions for accepting new members (or rather community supporters, because we're not yet a proper team, whatever that means) and for giving out the extended rights certain problems appeared.

This post should give clear guidelines concerning team membership and extended rights usage on all AirAttack servers. Please read carefully and adjust your approach in case it is not in accordance with some expectations. Thanks!
  1. Be sure to read the server rules by typing !opt and clicking on Server rules button. Every one of the points there applies to you as well as to other racers.
  2. AirAttack founders never needed strong words, you do not need them as well. WTF and similar messages are not acceptable either. Either you know (or check from replay) who caused troubles and if that was on purpose and based on this you act. Or you do not know and such message is useless.
  3. Never use the extended rights for your own advantage, never force your will on most of other people. Do not restart race just because you or your friend crashed, let the majority decide. Of course there may be special situations requiring manual restart, but there were reports about clear restart abuse.
  4. Use kicks and bans sparingly, based on bad driving or behavior. Kicking or banning people purely based on !tm output is simply wrong. Watch such drivers closely, warn, kick, only then ban. Too many kicks and bans will eventually kill the server, so be reasonable and reserve lengthy (dozens of days) bans for hardcore crashers. Give newbies a chance, only if really necessary use very short ban.
  5. Try to keep generally good atmosphere on the servers. Be friendly to other people, do not humiliate anyone, and do not laugh at others. Be calm, ban crashers, but try to help other people that are just learning LFS. Do not escalate your private disputes with other drivers, back down if possible and necessary.
  6. All AA servers should be newbie-friendly, as much as possible. There are only a few pro drivers, much more average drivers and many many slower people with potential. Making AA popular among average/slower people is of prime importance. If you're fast, learn to expect actions of slower drivers, slow down if necessary.
  7. Generally you should understand the following: You have the extended rights to help to manage the servers and to enable others to have good and clean races. By getting the rights the AA admins put trust in you hoping you'll never misuse them.
  8. If you're AA team member wearing the [AA] tag, all the above applies to you with doubled force. You represent AirAttack for the outside and you must be seen as nice, reasonable and helpful person. If you're not able to behave according to AA principles, you cannot be AA member.
  9. And here's the necessary final paragraph. Any AA member/limad seen violating the above outlines and generally damaging AA can have his status lowered or be excluded from the team or removed from limads list without prior warning. Of course this goes also the other way: Very good people (and this does not concern lap time in the least) may get limad rights and have their status raised.
Feel free to add below your suggestions concerning other guidelines that you think are necessary. Based on this I'll try to update the list. Do not hesitate to discuss things with me or anyone else via private messages here in LFS forum.

Happy racing on a server that you help to manage. Thanks for your good work!
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Quote from MaKaKaZo :But, the one info that I want to know is my position in *my* race, I mean, the cars on my own class.

Actually, I guess this info would be best to have in the pitboard panel, displayed on every lap finish for some 10 seconds. I have an update request concerning this panel, so I may as well improve it a bit, hopefully...

Quote from nl2dav :But a lot of people are asking how the point system works. While its very easy to follow when in !opt points is switched to on by default.

Points display, especially on multiclass servers, leads to serious spam on every race finish, that's why it is not active by default. An alternative could be to use Own data display which shows only your points, good times, etc.

Quote from RocksGt :We're really enjoyning the new entry for our league based on avg time, great work!

Ahh, very glad to hear that!

Quote from RocksGt :... the system is not taking the second lap you do by session into account.

Thanks for this report! Indeed 1st lap should be ignored, but not 2nd and the following, as it is happening during qualification/practice now. I believe I've corrected the code now, so it will be available since 2.3.6b, I'll send link soon.

Quote from RocksGt :What do you think of configuring the number of laps based on the current WR and a session time given in the cfg file? This way you would put that 6 minutes session time in cfg, and for each combo the Airio would decide how many laps should take for the avg

Doesn't sound bad. But for now I hope you know you can configure the required laps for average time using TCD file, so that each combo could have different value, set just once. The dependancy on WR could actualy present some troubles, especially when the WR table goes through major reset, such as is expected on next LFS patch or S3 version with new tyre physics. Maybe it is safer to use TCD file and set specific required average laps before you open that combo on your official servers.

Quote from RocksGt :Some people were asking about a little panel with info about your current frame session (the laps taken for the avg), compared with your current avg lap, showing at any moment if you're getting better or no. I'll put more info about this if you like it

Right. Well, I would have troubles creating some new panel. What I would consider useful is some info with lap time required to improve your average time, say after you made half the required laps and the lap time is reasonable, within your PB. The info could maybe fit into the timing buttons and be there with different color instead of elapsed race time on each lap finish.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Quote from MaKaKaZo :It could be useful to add a race position indicator relative to your car class.

Quote from VoiD :We have a ridiculous Aonio-radar, a pitspotter, fuel warning, gauges, silly views etc...



In fact the class separation display was already requested, but when implemented it will be part of Aonio. It is true that when you're racing with GT2 you're not interested in GTR people. But it is also true Aonio already contains the necessary data, showing what cars everyone uses (including custom restricted types of cars). Agreed, counting down your position in TBOs is too time consuming, something simpler is necessary, maybe just your position in your category displayed on every lap finish. Maybe this could also fit somewhere in Airio...

Quote from nl2dav :Good, but is that already available? And if so, where can I set the defaults?

No, not yet. My "internal" problem with this is that it will add some 50 odd items into an already bloated SRV file. Maybe using a new file type would be better. And I'm also thinking about 4-way configuration, allowing to turn on/off individual items for everyone new (1st connect, applied once) and also forcing certain on/off settings (every connect, always applied). But then again I'm afraid some admins will force too many data on people, making whole Airio look bad... Eh...
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Quote from VoiD :Don´t get me wrong, I love the new !ex-feature. But atm it´s a pain in the arse to get those stats "working" for a public-server. Hmmm...What about re/down-designing the !ex-page...?

Uhhhmmmm???? What do you need the EXP.aspx Web page for? It is purely for info, it is in no substantial way related to !ex command. It is there only to give people some basic idea about the experience index.

The whole thing works like this: Someone connects to your Airio FULL or PROS server. His LFSW data are downloaded locally, inside your Airio instance. Airio summarizes the data and sends a request to airio.eu with the summarized data. In return it receives calculated index and description.

It is not important that the indexes are also kept for some time on airio.eu. Important is every new connection will receive the index and description withing a few seconds (depending on your LSW data download configuration) and will keep it locally.

So I'm not sure what prevents reasonable use of LFSEI on public servers...
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Quote from VoiD :Is it possible to increase the "stay-alive-time" for each player on http://stats.airio.eu/EXP.aspx ..?

Currently the data are help only in memory and that means almost all code updates and other ASP.NET restarts erase the table and new one is built. When I find some free time I'd like to store the gathered info into a database table so that it is persistent, but I do not know when this will be.

Quote from Crady :Hmm we have the strange problem that all typed commands are shown although I hid them in the config... That spams our chat

When adding new GUI config options and merging some buttons I ran into difficulties with the option to hide all commands. In the rush to have 2.3.6 out I've decided to discard the possibility on server level. This is mentioned in the changelog. However, everyone can hide the commands himself by deactivating Typed commands (or just Commands) option in the !opt screen. Of course if you really really need the option, I may try to take a second look at the matter. But my intention was rather to allow complete default config for each new driver, where admins could set what is and what is not by default shown, with people free to adjust the settings later.

@ MaKaKaZo I'll keep the points in mind and do some experiments in time.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
First about the current state of safety rating: You are right that there will always be cases when you cause yellow flag not by your own fault. (This is when you are hit from behind or from the side, that you mostly cannot influence.) But the thing is the rating works pretty well on average. One caused yellow, bad luck. Another, well, also bad luck. But then yet another? And again? It doesnt look like bad luck anymore, it looks like something is wrong with you. So on average it works quite OK. Not always fair, but reasonable.

Second about clean overtake detection: There is no InSim info about car touch/collision, there is no info about car damage. Still, such a calculation could be possible using car locations, their distance, speed, etc. Unfortunately the data are not always reliable, lags play a big role here, and measuring car distance is possible and reasonable in whole meters, but not quite so in centimeters. Overall, it is nice idea, but it needs thinking to discover what conditions actually signify clean overtaking.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
NP! I guess there were some index errors then after !rks...
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
Hmmm. Does it maybe show "No data...". Or is there an error in console/log? If not, please check you have LicenceRanksText defined in TCD file, because for me !rks works good, in the older version and in new as well.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
@ MaKaKaZo It is not possible to have an ideal Aonio setup ready, because everyone uses different LFS settings. But you're right in the fact that the currently offered default config is too aggressive. I'll change it to some minimal version and people will have the option to turn on more panels and move them around if necessary. I'd suggest using Aonio drivers list though, it gives lots of otherwise unavailable info. Personally, I also love the radar, it gives very helpful overview, though it is not quite realistic as a device. I'll try to correct the wrong message... done for the next version. Considering the password hint, yes, I could add such a paragraph, one day...

@ hanshuijskes I'm not sure what is the cause, maybe the port is used by something else? See the above posts, there are some hints about zeroing certain data in cfg.txt file. That usually helps.
EQ Worry
S2 licensed
It is described here: http://www.airio.eu/Airio_AM.html#Statistics_Files, look for total average lap time and championship average lap time in STA.CR file. The value comprises in fact of two values: number of laps (e.g. 3 or 4, as you need) * 1,000,000,000 plus actual total time in centiseconds.

E.g. 4000028784 means the measurement was used for 4 laps average and the time for the 4 laps was 287.84 seconds, or 4:47.84. Average lap time is therefore 1:11.96.
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